Episode 009: Embracing the Power of AI For Your Biz

Today I’m being joined by Cameron & Tia and we’re going to be talking about the power of AI and the impact it can make in your business (for the better!)

 

Meet our guest:

Cameron & Tia are wedding photographers and photography business coaches based in Minneapolis, MN. They met in second grade at Jonathan Elementary School. Sixteen years later, Cameron proposed to Tia at that same elementary school. Cameron is an ex-attorney and Tia is a past dance teacher who transformed their passions into a career that allows them to have a life together filled with independence and tons of travel. Now, they teach others to others to create the same flexibility and freedom in their own businesses.

They are all about decorating their new build, exploring with their adopted mutt, Bella, and creating cozy cocktails to enjoy with friends and family. There is no adventure too big or small for Cameron & Tia. They can spend a relaxing night doing facemasks and re-watching Ted Lasso, enjoy a Minnesota summer day out on the boat, or embark on an epic month-long trip around Europe. 

As a thank you for tuning into the episode, Cam & Tia wanted to offer listeners a bank of their favorite AI tools you can grab at cameronandtia.com/outlast 

 

Question 1: What are AI tools and how could they affect our industry?

How long have you guys been using AI, do you think?

So actively,  we are literally exploring all the things, probably starting this year, like at the top of 2023. Cam is just really interested in exploring and  getting curious. And so when do you think you started,  so one thing we like to talk about too is TIA was very hesitant about ai and just , unsure,  what it looks like, how it works. Kind of scary new tech, I don’t know, but for me that’s really exciting. And so , one thing that I think helped kind of convince Tia to be more on board as we’re  exploring more was that  we do use AI kind of a lot in our daily life.

When we have for a while, we just don’t really notice it.  Even Google maps, . Navigating your route.  It’s using an AI to determine the best route for you. And it’s just  little things like that. We have smart shades in our house and smart lights and they have little routines, runner, or she has Siri to set a timer for her. Little things like that that are just , I mean we’ve obviously been doing that for years. And it’s now ingrained in her daily life. We have a Tesla, so we have autopilot,  just little things like that over and over and over. In every aspect of our life we are using ai, which doesn’t really, feel like it,  it just feels like there’s like this new wave and like a new kinda like revolution in ai.

That’s like bigger and better in some ways. And so when I paused and can’t explain that, I was like, it’s like using it for years. We’re using AI all the time. Yes. Really like digging into actually  in our business and like dedicated tools type thing.  That is a more recent thing.

I have an, I have to spell it cuz she’s in my office too. But I have a A L E x A in  every room of my house . I mean, kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, office. And then I have one in my studio too. And  people are always like, oh, the government’s listening. Like, you don’t wanna have one of those. And I’m like, I have nothing to hide. And it really me realize how lazy I’ve become. And sometimes when I travel, I bring her with me for the hotel rooms because , I’m like, what’s the weather? Set a timer for five minutes, wake me up at 9:00 AM And you don’t realize how reliant you become on technology until it’s not there.

So , it’s crazy to see how AI has grown just the last couple of years. And also to think about. How  we were alive before Google was even a thing. Isn’t that so weird? , when we were in school,  we had to do research the old fashioned way, which I mean, it’s just crazy to think how young Google and technology is and how much things have grown and changed over time.

And I was thinking that with the advances that technology has made in such a short amount of time, like in 70 some years, even though we’re gonna be pushing a hundred, like who knows what technology and science will be by then? So  we could still be alive in that timeframe cuz you don’t know what kind of, so it’s crazy.

Technology and science and AI is insane.

What are AI tools and how can they affect our industry?

So AI on like a big broad brush level is a set of software basically that is mimicking human intelligence. AI is artificial intelligence.  A way for computers to feel more human, more or less. And AI tools are pieces of software that we can use in some way to make our lives easier or better or more efficient, that allow us to take some of the weight off of the tasks that we do and put it in the hands of a computer to allow us to be better, basically.

How that looks in our industry, both photography and just the larger solopreneur, entrepreneur, small business, is that it can be a great tool for a saving time, which you already touched on and ideation, and it can be a great tool to help us take to the next level, I think a lot of people are feeling fears of like, oh, it’s gonna replace careers and like copywriters, designers, I just saw. headshot AI where it’s generating like hundreds of headshot for people. And I was like, dang, those are good. Like, I was impressed. But I think where the power lies is that an entrepreneur who’s using AI is going to replace an entrepreneur who’s not. It’s not that AI is going to replace the entrepreneur, and so if we can harness these really powerful tools that can take us to the next level, we’re going to just see so much growth and so much development throughout that.

I agree. And AI is still being controlled and generated by a human. So I agree. It’s not going to replace people, but  I mean, the world is constantly evolving and you have to stay up with the times or you’re gonna be left in the dust.

 So what are some of the earliest ways that you guys started using AI in your business?

I think Cam is just a very curious person.  Explain a little bit about your work life. Well, so I’m also a bit of a procrastinator. I like, Maybe like get distracted while I’m working and work on other things instead of actually getting my work done. And I mean, I found sometimes I’ll be in the middle of a big project and you know, like two hours in I’ll be like, I wonder, you know, if there’s a way maybe I could be doing this better or more efficiently.

I’m sure there’s some tool out there. So instead of actually, you know, working, I’ll maybe spend an hour just researching to see if maybe there’s something out there that helps me make this better. I’m like, sir, we have this insane batch schedule that operates our entire week. And it’s like where we interact with each other.

Oh, where he has deep work, where I have deep work and then he’s just like researching, I’m having air quotes in my hand, just, you know, exploring things. I’m like, that is not in the batch schedule. So now, now it is, now I have dedicated time. So instead of taking that hour in the middle of my work to, just see what else is out there, I now, if I have a thought like that, I’ll write it down.

And on Fridays I have dedicated time to be curious and like kind of let my mind go where it wants to go. See what new is out there. I mean, I just love exploring new tech and new products and just like new things in general I get really excited about. And so like that gives me time to actually explore a bit.

And so I feel like at the, end of last year, beginning of this year, we really started digging in to these new bigger, sexier tools that were coming out in the AI space. Had like big promise to them and like could maybe revolutionize the way we work or just help us in little ways to make ourselves more efficient and better.

So he now has a dedicated, we call it curiosity hour. And we so encourage so many people to put something like this on their calendar, his is on Fridays and it’s multiple hours because that’s his vibe. But just having a place where you know you’re going to get back to these things.

I think so often I just have something kind of nagging in my brain. Like in the back I’ll be doing, you know, productive tasks, doing client communication, then I’m like, Ugh. But what if I looked into this? Or like, what about that? And it feels to me, to my personality type, so counterproductive sometimes to go look up new things.

It feels like I need to take a few steps back to take a bunch of, hopefully steps forward, but I just don’t know, instead of just checking off task. Instead of just putting  down my to-do list and being like, I’m doing this, I’m doing that, I’m doing that. And so if I can have a dedicated time where I know I’m going to explore things, I’m gonna get in my curiosity hour and start figuring out the new ways to do things, the faster ways to do things, the more efficient ways to do things, that’s really productive for me.

And so I think Cam and my personality type’s being very different in our work styles. Regardless, this curiosity hour just allows us a dedicated time. And so through that, cam has always really been an early adopter and been a proponent of an early adopter. And so we’ve really benefited for a few different tools, including HoneyBook.

And I mean, to one of Tia’s initial injections, it’s like instead of actually getting work done, you’re spending an hour researching, I guess I’m just like seeing what’s out there. Like how, how, how could that be productive versus actually doing something that’s gonna make you money.

And  for us, one thing that has paid dividends is  Honey Book. One of those research days we were looking at, we were trying to find a c r m, the started of our business, trying to like find something that worked well for us in our workflow, in our schedule that looked nice, that like, yep, check these boxes.

And we happened to get lucky and find Honey book really early on. And so we got in at the founder’s rate, we paid a one-time fee and now we have Honey Book, lifetime access for free. And it’s  obviously. Upfront.  It wasn’t saving us a lot of money because we paid a lump sum upfront. But now for the rest of our life, as long as we keep using the software,  we are saving money every single month because Oh, because he was researching and I was like, does that make money here?

It does. Here’s where it’s paying us dividends. And same is true for  our password manager. I, we, at the time I had a Windows pc, an Android phone, and Tia had a MacBook and an iPhone and we’re like trying to figure out how we can share passwords easily between us, how little things like that work.

And I also wanted it to like look pretty and be functional and all this stuff. And I ended up signing up for the beta program of a program called Dash Lane. And the same thing I got in at the beta stage for free. They switched to a subscription model the next year. But because I invested in them early, they’re paying the favorite back and now I have lifetime access to the software for free.

It’s just like little things like that where it’s like, just because we are curious and  took a step out to see what was out there.  Is paying dividends for us now in the long term. The other place we saw it was TikTok. I got on TikTok March of 2020 and at the time I, I mean it was Covid and I had tons of time and so I was literally spending my time answering panicked couples emails about what are we gonna do, what is happening?

And then posting on TikTok. And that’s all I was doing. I mean, taking some walks, making some whip coffee. But besides that, I was like, let’s go all in. Cam And I have always really had a mentality of like, we’re not dip our toes in the water kind of people. We are like dive head freaking first, let’s jump and build wings while we’re falling down.

And so when I got on TikTok, I’m like, let’s go hard, let’s go ham. And at the time I really was searching and I felt like I could only find a handful of portrait photographers, of wedding photographers of that style. There were a ton of  fashion editorial, but I felt like that was a totally different game.

And in reality it was not saturated yet. Like it was not saturated with portrait photographers posting about. Business related things. And because of that, we saw a ton of growth. The combination of going all in, going balls to the walls and being a semi early adopter, being someone when it wasn’t saturated.

We saw a lot of growth there and we were able to grow our audience to 60,000 followers, which was not something that we were doing on Instagram. We were sweating and trying to put in the work. But then on TikTok, I was able to see that growth. We post a lot of our educational content on TikTok, so educating other photographers, and we were able to have about three and a half thousand photographers join our email list, which then just led into our entire education program.

A ton of those people who found us on TikTok in the early days are some of our best students in our courses. And so I think it’s just a testament of, I heard a long time ago Jasmine Star was on a podcast. This was, I’m, I’m talking like eight years ago probably, and it was when I G T V was rolling out.

And she said, think about it. Think about why people who are posting on I G T V are doing well, and it’s because Instagram is dumping all of this time and effort into developing I G T V, right? Like they’re marketing it. They’re probably having an entire team that is sitting there developing it.

And so think of the salaries that they’re paying. Think of all this. They need it to work, they’re going to do whatever in their effort to make sure that it works, to make sure that I G T V is a great success. And so they’re gonna make that algorithm work for it. So when I really started reframing that of like, holy cow, any platform who has ding time and energy and resources into new features, let’s talk about a new platform.

Like how about like Clubhouse or something? They want it to succeed. They need it to succeed. And so they’re going to put all that time and effort into making sure that it succeeds. And so I really had that mentality when going into TikTok of like, okay, I have this new information that I’m putting out here that I don’t see other people putting out there.

So how about I just like go hard. And I think I embracing that like early adoption, like let’s try something clubhouse like I was alluding to when Clubhouse started out, I was like, let’s dump time into it. Let’s go. I didn’t see anything fruitful come up from it at the time, but I know other people that did.

I think there’s just  this energy and this air of early adoption of like first time users that you will see a lot of benefits that you can reap from that.

That’s one thing that I struggle with and like with ChatGPT, because I, I was really excited to, but also I struggle with like, if, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Like don’t reinvent the wheel. If something’s working, keep doing it. And I want to find ways to make things easier, but also like relearning things is hard and finding new ways to do things is hard.

But then once I do find a way to get out of it, and I find a way to make things easier, I wanna tell everybody about it. And all the, all the automations with HoneyBook and the smart files and everything that they’ve been rolling out lately, it has made my, like my business runs itself in its sleep.

And I, I mean, I’ll come on and I’ll have 30 emails to go through of inquiries and people at different stages in their projects. And then I talked to my other photographer friends and they’re like, I just, I looked at one friend’s HoneyBook and she had like 200 projects in her follow up, but no, well, like half of them were from a year or two ago.

Like, she had never cleaned them out and she didn’t know. I know, right? Like I, my HoneyBook notifications are always at a minimum because like, I keep up with that, but that’s just, that was my workflow and she was not using. Honey book or any automations to her benefit. And she was going through every single project one by one, and I started to show her the ways that she can get Honey Book to work for her and to do the work for her.

And she still comes back. She’s like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. You were such a help. Like that. I had no idea what I was missing. And so I have to constantly reframe myself and remind myself that I always need to be, have an inquiring mind and I always need to keep looking out. And anytime I feel like I’m getting stuck, or if I feel like I am hating some repetitive task in my business, I, I mean, I need to adopt the curiosity hour because that’s when, if you find that you are repeatedly doing something obnoxious and what you feel like is pointless but necessary.

 

Question 2: Why should listeners start using AI tools?

There’s more than likely an AI or an automation or somebody out there doing it better than you are.

Yes, a hundred percent. Okay. And so that’s the whole mindset shift of like, it’s so hard to pause and stop and take two steps back to potentially take five steps forward to potentially take 10,000 steps forward because it feels like that backward motion. And I had to really early on. Stop and realize this is the , granular level of this.

I would realize, hey, if I’m sending an email twice, if I’m ever writing something twice, literally if it’s two sentences about like a client asking, Hey, what’s the process if I bring my dog? I would just retype that and then I needed to pause and I needed to say, I need a template every single time. If I am ever sending something twice, there is the line.

I should never type something twice. And things like that, like you’re saying, there’s some sort of automation, some sort of like zappier that could like connect those things for you because it just doesn’t make sense to do those tests over and over when so many of us became entrepreneurs to get out of a job or get out of a lifestyle that didn’t serve us to get more  flexibility, more freedom, and if you are doing these things repetitive over and over that.

That’s not a better life, that’s not a better system for you. That is not a system, and you need to be able to pause to take those steps backwards. As frustrating as it might feel in order to get this life that’s automated, that’s working while you sleep, that’s allowing you to have this life filled with whatever that is for you and for us, that’s traveling, that’s boating, that’s having themed parties so that we can have a business that works for us instead of feeling like we have to work constantly.

And it’s just my teaching day is haunting me. Anytime I have to repeat myself over and over. I’m like, I spent so many years doing this with children. Everything I do is to avoid reliving the worst parts of my teaching career.

 You had said how like sometimes you have to take two steps back so that you can take five steps forward. And I know we’re about to talk about this with editing workflows, but that’s how I felt with imagine when I first, I mean editing beach sessions, like session after session, the same thing and the same background.

I was like, oh my gosh. Like yes, the edits are custom, but for the most part they’re just being pasted. And I’m like, there has to be a better way to do this. And at first I was reluctant about imagine , I was backed up with sessions and it took me, it took a couple days to teach, imagine my profile, and go back and upload all of my galleries that I had liked the edits  for the style that I wanted, and it took a while to teach it and get over that.

But now that we’re over it, I mean, I haded galleries in less than five minutes. And what used to take me days to call, edit, and deliver a gallery now takes me maybe an hour or two. It’s, it’s insane. Which takes us to our next question.

Elle, that’s exactly what we wanna talk about. Cam went into Imagin. And into Filter Pixel, which is a culling tool that we can talk about. And it felt the same way to you, right?

Oh, absolutely. Like, cause imagine it requires you to upload, I can’t remember now. It was like three or 6,000 images, something like that.  It is a lot of work up upfront to  go back through your old work, find the galleries you love, put those together, spend the time uploading it, waiting for it to get the results, put a profile together for you, and then start testing that profile and then fine tuning that profile.

 Just  all of that  is work you have put in upfront and  that is frustrating. It does feel like two steps back to get that done, just like you were saying. But  now that that work has been put in  every single gallery we deliver, we are saving hours and hours and hours of work moving forward.

It’s just same thing with   Honey book and Dashlane. It’s just like, it’s not a huge payoff the first time, but  it’s just gonna keep compounding over time. Building and building and building. And it’s gonna get better over time too.  Already we’re just  in the early stages of this software, but it’s already so close that  even for some of our weddings,  at least for us, sometimes it’ll feel like maybe there’s only  a hundred good image,  perfect images from this and then  another 80% that are  really pretty good and then 20% that need some work.

But only having to edit 20% and then tweak 80%. Just the finest, finest tuning is nothing compared to editing a full wedding. And that’s again, just getting started. So I think part of it is the excitement going forward, but also just  the current time savings is just wild. So that’s the first place that we’re using AI in our business is on our editing workflow.

Kind of revamping that. I know that a lot of listeners are probably familiar and hearing about Imagine and hearing about Filter Pixel. Get in there, explore, put that on your curiosity hour, see if that’s something you can dedicate to. But then there are a lot of other tools that you can use. So the first that was alluding to is ChatGPT and ChatGPT.

Can you explain it a little bit for us, so ChatGPT there are a bunch of  different types of AI ChatGPT falls in what’s called a natural language ai. so basically it’s a piece of software that’s trying to talk like a human ChatGPT can scrape the, the entire internet up to a certain time. Then take that data and make itself sound like a human talking to you, which is crazy, but also so helpful. And so I think ChatGPT is where it’s at right now. I think if a listener is listening and they’re like, I am so unsure about  what to do, what should happen as my first step into AI ChatGPT is really powerful.

And the biggest piece being is that it is currently not behind a paywall. And so a lot of other tools are going to have a paywall or they’re going to have a paywall at a certain level, like a certain tier. And I think ChatGPT has a lot of power right now. A, because it’s not behind a paywall B, because it can do a lot of different things.

And so we’re gonna also talk about some tools that are a little bit more. Specialized that have some specific use cases. ChatGPT can really do a lot of things. And so I really want listeners to walk away knowing a lot of things that they can put into action right now. So the biggest thing that I can picture a lot of photographers using ChatGPT for is to get in and to create blog post content.

So your having ChatGPT, create titles, create the copy, create SEO titles, create slugs, create meta descriptions, all the things. And what I wanna really encourage you to do is to get in and to get really specific with ChatGPT, you’re gonna see success not necessarily in a first draft sometimes, but more so in a second draft.

In a third draft. And it’s gonna be when you really keep probing it when you really keep giving it a lot of information and trying to get it really specific. So I’ll give you a few examples, but what’s that acronym that you say about? Yes. I, I can’t remember who I heard this from, but they called it a tom.

Like AI is basically a tom, it’s a totally obedient moron. It will do exactly what you tell it to do. But it has no idea what it’s actually doing. So approach ChatGPT knowing that, approach it. That you need to give it the tools in order to create things, but then I want you to know that there’s gonna be payoff.

It’s gonna create an entire blog post for you. So what I encourage is , go in, tell it specifically, give me 10 titles, four, dot, dot, dot. So for example, we create YouTube videos weekly, and what I will do is if I have some sort of like bulleted script, I will literally take that script and I will just pop it in and I will say, give me 10 of the most clickable titles.

Four dot, dot, dot. It’ll gimme 10 titles. Will those 10 titles be winners? Sometimes. Sometimes it’ll be pretty good, sometimes no. And I will need to then personalize it. And so I’ll say, okay, dig in. Give me 10 of these titles with a super fun, flirty, joyful tone to it. So that’s our brand. So I’m gonna really personalize that and have it have a tone to it.

I can also  direct the role that I want it to be. So I can say, pretend. No, I don’t say pretend. Well, sometimes you can make a chatty. I’ll be like, Hey friend, what’s up? I’ll be like, thank you, love it. Cause it’ll chat back and forth with you. You don’t need to do that. But I’ll tell them like, act as though you’re a season photographer who’s been photographing beach sessions for five years and is an expert, and then it’s able to take all this data and remember it is scraping the internet.

So it is taking everything I can learn about being a seasoned beach photographer. And then it can pack that in one punch and then it can act like that. And so I will repeat that. So let’s say I’m creating a blog post for an engagement session that I’m like, Man, I do not wanna write about this, but I wanna be ranking for a certain location.

I can go in and I can tell it to write me the blog post. So sa I’ll say, give me a 300 plus word blog post describing Blake and Jen’s engagement session at Boom Island Park. Again, I’m getting specific, right? I’m giving it all of the pieces that will rank highly, that will rank highly and for s e o, let’s say that period, so it spits out a first draft.

I’ll then look at that first draft and. For something like that where I just need to get the content out where I just need a first draft game changing. Think how much time that saves you. I do not want to write that. Not only is it not my skillset, but it’s something that I hate doing. So saving me time right there.

First draft, I could in a, some cases I can just pop that right in there and it’s done an entire 300 plus word blog post, but most times I won’t stop there. I will then get a little bit more specific. I wanna have some personal touches, right? So I’ll have it, I’ll give my tone that I want the voice to be.

I’ll say, okay, let’s make it a little funnier. How about add in some puns? I do that a lot cause that kind of fits within our brand. Do I actually write puns? No, I can’t think up puns. But chay, BT can for me, and then I’ll add some personal details. So I’ll be like, okay, add in about how they had the charcuterie board and they sat and overlooked the city and the river while having their engagement session.

It’ll add in a paragraph about that and I’ll say, give me a couple different options for this paragraph. It can give me five options. I can choose the one I like more. Maybe I don’t even tweak it. Maybe I take the first two sentences from one and the other three sentences from another. So just start to internalize the power of that.

I put that in my blog post, right? Let’s keep going through this scenario, and then I’m like, well, what should I call it? Literally ask it to give me 10 titles. I say, what should the slug be? I never write meta descriptions anymore. Does that take a lot of my brain power? Not necessarily like what, that’s maybe like a two minute task, but a two minute task for, we blog all of our weddings, for example, so for 30 weddings.

That’s powerful, that instead gives me a lunch where I can sit and watch TV or whatever that is. So I think digging in is really, really important. Directing the tone, and I think it’s really fun to direct the role. I see a lot of success with that, where I’ll say, I’ll give you this. And so maybe like, I’ll give you, for example, we create products for our shop.

Like I know you do. I’ll say, I’ll give you this product title and all of the features. You give me sales copy for a 200 word Shopify listing, and so then it’ll be able to generate that. For me, that’s a tedious task that doesn’t necessarily require my touch or my expertise. It’s just something I need to get done where it is going to be so much more powerful for me.

I think it’s also. confident am I at SEO average? I would say I have a general knowledge I can get it done. How confident am I with SEO paired with ChatGPT? Pretty darn confident. Like I think it’s gonna have a lot to offer there because it can literally, again, scrape the internet. So I think that’s really powerful.

Just for thinking about photographers of what can I start doing. There’s one more thing with ChatGPT. I wanna touch on the other element of it. So let’s call that like, it’s creating content for me, right? It’s creating first drafts. I think we can use that in a lot of different ways and start to see how we could use that.

The other second idea is or the other second part of that is ideation. I think that there’s a lot of power. So many of us are solopreneurs. We do this all on our own. We maybe have a partner or parents or a friend that we can bounce ideas off of. But having ChatGPT in your back pocket to be this constant business partner with you is insane, or a third party or whatever that is, is really, really powerful of, Hey, I wanna name this new product, or, Hey, I wanna name this blog post.

Like we were saying. I think that you can see a lot of value in just bouncing ideas off of ChatGPT people who do themed mini sessions that have just been calling them like Easter Sessions. Great, fine. But how about I pop this into ChatGPT and I have it generate some ideas for me that are brand specific, that are really new and exciting.

And again, it might not get me the idea, but it’s gonna get me closer and closer. So it might spit out 10 ideas. And then I’ll say, well, how about if you do it more this way? Well, how about if we add in this language? Maybe you find a word from the first draft that you’re like, Ooh, I for sure want that to be in there.

Give me more, 10 more ideas with this word. And then it’s gonna get you closer and closer, or it’s going to get you right there. And if it gets you closer and closer again, saving time over and over, it’s just allowing you kind of taking this next level. So I think Jet G P T is really powerful right now that you can just get in and you can really play with it and you can start thinking about ways in your workflow that you could integrate it in there.

How about creating email templates? Maybe you’re someone who doesn’t have them yet, or you have pieces and ChatGPT could create so many of those for you. I think about my dog example earlier about like I need to pause and have these two sentences be an email template. Well, how about I have it generated for me and I can actually have this really cohesive paragraph that makes a lot of sense altogether. Email template done. So there’s a lot of elements in there that I think are really, really fun with ChatGPT. Definitely. Love

Do you have a video of you interacting with ChatGPT, like with this whole process so that people can follow along?

Here’s the deal. How about this? I have been wanting to make this and I’ve been wanting to show like, okay, now I’m gonna add in this and now I’m gonna add in that. And now let’s make it really specific. So I’m gonna make it for your listeners. So we have a page it’s Cameronandtia.com/outlast for the pod, and it’s gonna have all the tools we talk about today plus, So many more.

It just is basically kinda like a bank. Just to clarify, the link is cameronandtia.com/outlast. What did I just say? Well, you said for the pod at the end, I just wanna be clear to clarify that for the pod isn’t in the url, I assume that’s probably clear, but just in case. Just in case clear. Yes. Yes. So it has so many tools on there and we just want you guys to have the resource to be able to like get clicking, get working on it.

And I’m gonna make a video just for that’s gonna be on this page so that all of the listeners can just see it right there and see this example of us walking through it. Because I think that’s powerful to get you. Again, it’s kind of an ideation part of it to see me walking through and like what I’m trying and then you’re gonna be like, oh, well what if I did it this way?

Well, what if I added this on? Well, what if I did this for my workflow? So deal handshake, I am creating that.

Yes, and that’s what I struggle, like after we talked, like I had gotten on ChatGPT and I was playing around with it and I had done a lot of things with it, but as you were just going on and on talking, I’m like, holy crap. I was not utilizing it near as much as it could be utilized for it, which just blow, like, it just blows my mind.

Which I spent some time kind of just doing first drafts on ChatGPT still power to that, right? Like we can do some good stuff with that. Creating an Instagram caption per se. I don’t wanna write that. So here, first draft, but then when I started really probing and really having that mindset of like, Hey, this is a Tom, so let’s get really at it and let’s  dig in deeper.

I was just kinda like exploring and finding what the limitations of ChatGPT are and like knowing how far can I push this? What does it actually not do very well that maybe I wanna find a different program for. But  just also then knowing in the future if I’m doing this sort of thing, I need to make sure that I include this description along with it.

Cuz when I do that, it does great if I. I’m just kinda wasting my time. Exactly. That then you can discover those limitations and find solutions for thos. That work for you. Work for your business, work for whatever in your workflow you’re trying to fill that need for.

And if I’m remembering correctly as you were talking with ChatGPT, does it give you the opportunity to rank and  give a thumbs up or thumbs down for how the feedback went or is that a different ai? So how important is it to give that feedback?

Okay. I’m not sure. So  ChatGPT is developing rapidly, like in this insane speed. Same with AI in general and all these tools that are popping up. This list that you’ll find at cameronandtia.com/outlast. Nothing else, no other words in there.

We are updating constantly because we find something new and fun and engaging. And so I think with a lot of things it’s unsure of like, how much does this impact this? But in general, ChatGPT is looking for feedback . They’re looking for people to use it. That’s why it’s free right now, that’s exactly is that, this is like a beta in a sense.

Like let’s say this is kind of like when we take a beta course, they want feedback and that will shape how it will look in the future. So how much is it impacting your personal Knowledge and growth, I don’t think it

Right? How is it impacting that feedback? I don’t think it is. Instead, I think it’s impacting as a greater whole like ecosystem, how that will look in the future, and I think that’s what’s exciting about getting in on these things now is, not only do you have the potential to influence how this develops and how this looks, which is just powerful, but you have the knowledge about it.

You are not trying to get in on this, four months, a year down the road and trying to discover those things. Then when it’s already developed so much further, you’re part of that development and you are along for that ride, which I think is powerful.

And back to backtracking a lot after shoot is the AI that I used  for my calling and I, I mean, I was one of the first. I don’t know how many people I was in with the beginning, but in the very beginning stages I actually got on a Zoom call with the founder and  he’s in India and it was some late night Zoom call and I was just having my glass of wine and I was having trouble with something and he was helping me troubleshoot.

And  we were just going back and forth and we were talking like we were old friends. And so it’s so crazy like getting involved in the early stages, but just seeing like in the last year and a half how much after shoot has changed and first it tells you how many days it has helped you save and get back and I’m up to, I’m up to 121 days  of my life that it has helped me get back.

And like, that’s just crazy to think about, like how many. Of that, what I have spent calling, and I mean, I am able to take on more sessions,  it’s just amazing. And now any time that I post on my Instagram story about how I use After Shoot to Call and Imagine to edit, they each message me and then after shoot’s like, wow, you know, we have edits now.

And then imagine it’s like, well, you know, we have Culling now. Like, why don’t you stick with us? And I’m like, I just like, and that’s where I’m struggling now because like, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And like, I have a really good system, but how much better could it be if I  just kept it all in house,

One streamlined platform. Yes. Can we talk about that? About being betas? I think there’s so much power in just trying things, being early adopters, having that like we were talking about. But your example. I always think about the reverse . So we have a couple of students that took one of our courses really, really early on and we got to know them really well.

We did not have a lot of students in there. And so honestly, I know I’m thinking of one student in particular, her name is Nive. I feel as though I know the ins and outs of her entire business, and she is just phenomenal. She took our advice, she ran with it. She is a all-star student. So then when we roll around and we have another course coming out, of course she applies to be a beta test.

Automatic in. I already know everything about her. She’s an all star, and so she gets a course for free in exchange for her feedback. So it doesn’t stop there because I want to invest in NI’s business. That’s the power of small businesses. I saw her invest in us, and in our courses, and so we feel like, oh my gosh, let’s get after it.

And I think that that manifests its way in so many different ways. But I also know she’s just a rockstar. She does this with another photographer who has also a full education suite. And so I think of the power of that, how her business is accelerating, how she has all these touchpoints with all kinds of people that she values and that she is able to be mentored by just because she is looking at small businesses and saying, Hey, I wanna invest in them.

I think that this is a great fit. I’m gonna put all my effort into giving really valuable feedback. And so she sees that tenfold in her business growth and in. I mean, free products in a lot of cases. So I just think there’s so much power in how can I invest in small businesses early on, and you’ll see so much come from that.

And the importance of like giving thoughtful feedback too.  Not just the general , yes, it was great, I didn’t like this. Like just ba like you need to really think and go in depth with your feedback. And Cloud spot is who I use for my gallery delivery. And they are always hungry for feedback and , anytime I’m  in the middle of something and I’m like I wish they could do this.

Like I’ll just drop in the help box and I’ll add in a comment. And they’re like, oh, that’s brilliant. Thank you. And so I think like it’s important to give genuine and rel like, I don’t know, what are the words I’m thinking of? Like important feedback.

And like thoughtful feedback and not just the basic.

And  that’s the good thing about being a small business. Like it’s a constant give and take. And that’s the good thing about a mastermind program because you have all of these brilliant minds that are coming together to give thoughtful feedback. And everybody has their own experiences. And that’s awesome for your student because like she sounds like she gives really genuine definitely.

to people  but in turn,  she’s giving something but she’s also receiving like it’s a constant. Oh, I love that beta. That’s fun. So ChatGPT. I think large picture is where you can see a lot of skills and you can try out a lot of stuff. I think there are now a lot of specialized programs, so I can do a lot on ChatGPT I can ask for a meta description, I can ask for a se SEO title, but I just wanna give the listeners a couple of very specialized programs.

 

Question 3: What are ways that listeners can use AI right now?

So the first that I think would be really helpful for a lot of photographers is called the script. So what you can do with the script is you can upload a video, and for this example, I wanna use like an onboarding video. So let’s say you just book a client, you have an email that you send them of like, Hey, here’s the guide, here’s what’s gonna happen.

Let’s also say that you wanna have this personalized touch and you wanna have a video in there. So you upload that video into the script, and then what it does is it automatically makes a transcript and so it’ll populate all of the words. Honestly, it’s really good at that. Like it might not have the right cadence to things, but it’s great at just like getting that script in there.

You might have to edit it a little here and there, but what you can do is you can edit that video right from there so you can edit from the transcript, and I maybe put a sentence in there that I’m like, eh, that’s not the vibe. I highlight that sentence and I’m able to just like delete that right out of there.

I can toggle on and I can get rid of pauses, I can get rid of ums. It is super powerful in that way for just an editing tool. But then, You can take it up a notch and instead of having this video that like says nothing about, it really doesn’t have personalization, it doesn’t have their name.

Maybe you just booked them and you wanna say, we had such a great chat this morning. Or sometimes it’s gonna be this afternoon. You can go in and you can actually replace those words and it will mimic that in the video. Can you replace sentences? No, it will not work that way. But can you just flip first names to be like, Hey, Allie, or hey, Yes, really, really well.

And so you’re able to have this personalized touch with virtually  no work. You don’t have to get camera ready, reset up your camera, have your hair done, record a whole new video to have this awesome extra touch for your clients. You are able to create these videos to be always personalized. I think about this in like an entire workflow.

If you wanted all of your email templates to have a video with them, like, oh my gosh, how powerful they show up at a session. They already feel like they know you. You could do this for every video, just flipping the first name . It’s great to also create short form content. You are able to just like crop it and make it the resolution for a short form video you can add in, they call it dynamic text.

So it could be like the words could be falling along with me to be able to have those populating. They have a lot of fun features like adding bubbles, adding different colors that just make the video really engaging for a short form video to be able to just repurpose content like a boss. So really fun.

So I used a script to edit my podcast episodes and before I was using GarageBand and I’d have to like sit there and listen and just trim out all of the really long gaps and trim out all of the awkward words. And there was no transcription of like, where I was in the audio file and it was so hard to keep up with. Before I had  relaunched the podcast and I had recorded the one episode and I was still trying to figure out my workflow with the new everything.

And I hadn’t used a script yet. And I said, I don’t even think I like, this is not bringing me joy. Why am I doing this? Like I just felt like it was something that I had to do and it wasn’t so much something that I wanted to do. And then I started using script to edit my podcast episodes and  the joy is back and I’m now like, before using Zoom to record the video and  it just didn’t bring me joy, but I revisited the workflow and now with Riverside and with Des, like I’m able to find a way and I enjoy these interviews again.

And  just  descript and I don’t use it anywhere near again, like you guys are blowing it out of the water. Like I feel like I’m using it the minimal. But I’m just getting started with it and it’s, it’s just crazy to see how much you can do with it.

So I have a rejuvenation story, which is actually about the next tool. I have just been feeling  very lost of what I’m doing on Instagram. What I’m just like, what our strategy is there. You know, and I feel like people go through waves of that all the time where you’re like, okay, I’m feeling really excited about this.

I’m pumped about this. This is fun. I’m feeling reengaged. I’ve been in a flop era for a bit now that I’m like, I don’t know what’s happening here until I found this. So this tool is called ManyChat and it’s basically like DM marketing. And some people might see this, a lot of big marketers started using this, I feel like the end of last year.

And basically what it is, is it’s like a marketing funnel that happens in your dm. So it could be Instagram dms, it could be Facebook Messenger, it could literally be like sms and it is a bot, which I’m. Girl red flag like bots on Instagram. I’m unsure. Like that’s like fake follower vibes. It’s not, I think it has a lot of power to be personalized.

 And to be really engaging. And so what it is, is it’s an automated DM funnel. So on your backend, you create this entire funnel that can have all these different options where you opt in or you opt out. And so let’s say I post an Instagram reel, I post an Instagram reel, and I say comment, learn. And then from there the viewer is able to comment, learn more, and it automatically takes them into their dms and where I’ve sent them a message that’s automated and it says like, Hey, I’m so excited that you wanna learn more.

Here’s, let’s go down an example route. Okay, so it says, here’s freebie that has a guide where I can teach you how to do X, Y, and Z. And then it’ll give. Prompted responses. So it’ll be like, yes, I’m in. Or it’ll be like, maybe later. And then I have this entire workflow where it says, yes, I’m in. I’m able to ask for their first name.

I’m able to ask for their email. They can opt in to a freebie right there. They’re not going outside of their dms to like, you know, click on the Lincoln Bio and then they go over to this landing page. They’re opting in right there. I can also personalize it in so many different ways. So you can use so many different types of media.

You can have photos, you can have videos, you can have voice memos, like just all the things where it feels this really organic free flow of just starting conversations, opening doors. And it’s so exciting when I initially saw people doing this like these big marketers, you know, like Amy Porterfield, Jenna, I opted into so many things, so many like, yes, and I knew that it was automated at some point.

At first I was like, dang, how’d they doing this? But even when I knew it was automated, I just think it’s this new, fun, engaging tool that has started to make Instagram really exciting for me when I’m starting to picture like, oh, what if we did it this way? Ooh, let’s try a funnel this way. There are just so many options where people can reply to reels, they can reply to stories, they can send you a dm, and I just think it’s so engaging and reinvigorating.

If your listeners,, want to just see an example funnel, they can DM us at Cameron and Tia and they can DM us chat like C H A T, and it just walks you through an example funnel where you can kind of see it all in action. See how you  input fields, see all of the like set responses where they can select this or select that there’s a video, there’s a voice memo in there just so that you can catch a vibe and see how it feels to be on the other end of it.

 It’s so important to see it from both ends of it and to experience both ends. Like every once in a while I have to go through my honey book workflow and I’ll create a fake project so that I can experience it from the client end. Because like download a gallery, somebody’s like, well, how do I do this?

And I’m like, I don’t, I, to be honest, I don’t know what it looks like from your end. Good luck. So I love that.  As soon as we hang up, I’m gonna DM you guys chat to see what it says because  I had tried that maybe last year or something, but it. I mean, so much has changed with it since then, and I, I think I liked it, but I think I was overwhelmed with all of the potential and the possibilities that it had to offer.

For sure. The nice thing about ManyChat is they just started putting a whole new dashboard where it has all kinds of example funnels and so it’ll walk you through them and it’ll have like little notes for them. And so where I can see a lot of the listeners using this is inquiries. When people are inquiring in dms, I know a lot of people hate that and they’re like, get outta there.

You need to go into my contact form. You can have ManyChat replying to those now. And not only can you have ManyChat replying to those, I know that people can use automated responses on Instagram, so it could be like head to my contact form and that’s automated. But it can have this entire funnel where the potential client that’s reaching out to you can feel like it’s a full conversation.

Where they can feel like it can have back and forth . You can ask ’em questions. You can like ask where they’re getting married, like so you know if this is a destination wedding or if it’s local to your area and they can like literally go through this step. It can tag them in your email sequence.

So then, you know, moving forward and just like it allows you to customize it for them, you serving them immediately. But then also  you’re getting all the information you need. It’s not like just a bot that’s like, oh, here, go here, period. And then maybe period, there’s no follow up. Yes, yes. Definitely testing.

And then what’s so nice about it is, like Cam said, you are getting instant replies. So we know that so often when people are reaching out, timing matters, but also like work life balance matters, right? Like having your life matters. ManyChat is this insane employee that works constantly. I heard the ManyChat founder describing them as your best employee yet because they do not have vacation.

They work constantly. They have instant replies, which I just think is so fun. And we know that  timing matters with inquiries. And so if they’re getting back right away and they’re keeping this lead hot, like fiery hot, they’re not letting them cool off. They’re not letting them explore other photographers that is powerful. And that can have a lot of implications for your bottom line.

 I sometimes I’ll get inquiries at 10, 11 o’clock at night and if I respond at 10 or 11 at night,  I feel like they’re more likely to book, even though I’m kind of crossing that having healthy boundaries and healthy work hours, even though I’m crossing that, I feel like they value that more.

And with ManyChat, that would just take out the heartache of you having to cross those barriers and it cross, like your client still feels satisfied and you’re feeding that need and you’re feeling their fire, but you are also respecting your boundaries. So that’s awesome that it is able to do all of that, and minimal effort from

Which that makes sense with the 11:00 PM inquiry, because they are hot, they are ready to take action because they’re already in the action mode and you are beating out everyone else because the likelihood of someone else replying at 11:00 PM is zero to none. And  just knowing like the psychology behind that.

Of if you can have someone something responding right then and giving them everything that they need, giving them all the resources. Maybe that is a pricing guide. Maybe that completely reshapes your entire consult process. Maybe it’s sending a link to book a discovery call or a consult call, whatever that is.

There’s just a lot of different ways that that could look. To go through an entire funnel. And if you want personal touch points, you can set expectations. You responded immediately to this. You’ve got their information, and you say, great. Now you can expect a response in your inbox, like in your email In X number of hours. Yep.

 As soon as they fill out my contact form, my workflow automatically triggers and it says, you know, I’ll reach out personally if I haven’t already. And it’s because I don’t remember the percentage of it, but. It was like something in the nineties, like 90 over 90% of people expect a response within 15 minutes, and which is, even if it’s just, and I saw something, I was like, there’s no way I can respond that quickly.

But then I was like, automated responses. And even if it’s an automated response,  they’re getting immediate feedback from you  so you’re reassuring them. And I even  at the end of it said, like, it says like, da, da, da, thanks for inquiring. Here’s my pricing guide. Let me know if you have questions. I’ll reach out personally soon if I haven’t already. Like that tells people that it’s automated, but also  it’s giving them the immediate response that they need 

Yep. Which I think it can look the same way in ManyChat. It can be this automated thing that walks them through an entire experience, but that just opens the door for a more personal connection. It  allows you then to continue the conversation in dms, which that person may have never DMed you before.

You know, like, let’s go down the road of this potential wedding client who’s been following you for a few years has never dmd you because it didn’t feel like it was their place, or they didn’t know how to communicate with you, or whatever that is. Now they’ve had this like really easy conversation because a lot of times they’re just clicking answers. They don’t have to type anything in. So that’s so easy. There’s no barriers to entry, and then it allows you to continue that conversation and further build that relationship.

And it just cuts out all of the unnecessary back and forth that sometimes it is just better for technology to handle things. So I know we didn’t talk about this before, but Zapier and Zaps  tell me more about those and how you can incorporate that into your business and is that, how does that relate to artificial intelligence and automations. What’s the difference with that?

So the basis of Zapier, for those that don’t know, is that Zapier is basically like a connecting platform. So it’s called a Zap when it happens, and it’s a zap between two platforms. So it could connect, for example, like your email platform to a Google sheet. So how that could look like, just for an example, is if someone reaches out and I wanna track inquiries

a Zap be created that communicates between my email platform and communicates between my Google sheet. And then that’s where it’s tracking all of my inquiries. So I know this can look different for a lot of people. Some people track their inquiries in their crm, some people track them in a spreadsheet, whatever that is.

But in this case, it’s then going to take data from that email and I tell it what data to take and when it should take data. That’s when you’re like creating your Zap and it takes that data and then it pops it in a Google sheet. And so then it’s just automating that time. We track our things in Honey Book, but I also like to track them in a spreadsheet for different ways.

I like to track when we’re getting inquiries in so that I can look back in the past year and know, okay, well June wasn’t that hot for wedding inquiries for us. I wonder why. Maybe there’s a trend there. So this June, I don’t need to be as worried. I can wait until July. So I have Zapier working in the back so that it can do those things automatically and again, How much time is that saving me, you know, two minutes here or there, but two minutes for when we get hundreds of inquiries, that adds up fast.

And so Zapier has tons of integrations with tons of tools. Like literally probably, if you can think of it, it can work with it. It just has so many, and it’ll have a lot of examples Zaps that it’ll give you like, Hey, this could work with this, or this could work with this, this way. And then you can kind of go through templates.

But a lot of times it’s pausing and taking those steps to like, okay, I’m gonna take two steps backwards to think how could I make this faster? And if it’s something that’s repeatable, it’s something that’s kind of like menial. It doesn’t necessarily require a skillset set, like, I’m copying this from this, or I’m adding this to that, or I’m like, reorganizing this from this.

Zapier can do it for you and you just need to really sit there and think through. Another example is after consult calls, I like to. Put in the private notes section of Honey book, everything that we learned about our couples, everything from like their sister’s name to the venue description, what they love about the venue, things like that.

And I would forget that constantly I’d get done with a consult and we have consults at weird times a lot and I’d be like, okay, done. I’m ready for dinner, let’s go. And then I’d try to do it the next day and I could not remember as much and I’m like, ah dang, that just feels like an opportunity missed.

I now have, when an inquiry is added to our calendar, Zapier sends a zap to create a task in a sauna, which is our task management system, write notes. And so then I have a task to remind me that I need to write the notes for. It takes the data in. So for Aubrey and Jim, and then I know that I need to be able to do that so that I’m never forgetting that and just like leaving that loose end. It allows us to like tie up so many different task.

I love that.  Just thinking that anytime you’re working in your business at all, anytime you feel like, Ooh, that was a missed opportunity, that’s your magic moment. To realize that there’s some sort of AI automation, something that you can put into your business to make it better. So just consciously reminding yourself that anytime you’re anywhere and you think, Ooh, that was a missed opportunity,  there is a solution somewhere for that.

And sometimes it’s just a matter of  brainstorming with another business person to find out how they do things. And I’m gonna have to remind myself that, Or, Ooh, that was a missed opportunity and it, I’m gonna have to be more conscientious about that.

Yes. And I think a lot of those repeatable tasks are the first things that people start to delegate that they’re like, okay, well I probably need a va For example, in our onboarding workflow we have, it’s full of  repeatable tasks. When a wedding client books with us, we have maybe like nine tasks.

And I’d say like six of those are very repeatable and very basic. You know, they just need to be done. And when we started hiring, I was like, oh, well that goes to a va. They can do the entire onboarding workflow. But if I pause and I say, wait, do I actually need to pay someone to do that? Or could that be done by Zapier?

Is there some sort of automation? Is there some sort of AI tool could that could do parts of that? I think there’s a lot of power in pausing before delegating some things like that. And then I could have a human doing something higher level 

 So what we would really encourage listeners to do is after this podcast, it’s so easy to listen to a podcast while driving, while showering. That’s me. And then you don’t do anything about it. Maybe it stays in the back of your mind while it’s in the back of your. Create some time on your calendar for a curiosity hour where you can carve out that time to just really explore.

And then when you’re ready for that curiosity hour, maybe we’ll see you on Friday, like me and Cam, on Friday. I want you to go to the page, it’s Cameronandtia.com/outlast, and there you can discover all of the tools. You’ll be able to see that new tutorial that I’m making for, and you can just start exploring, start clicking around, start exploring some new tools, seeing if they might fit in your workflow, seeing if they’re exciting, if they’re rejuvenating for you, and if that might be some powerful stuff for you.

 

Hot Takes: Extra Biz Goodies

Books, TV, vacations & DIY

Okay, so fun facts about you guys. What is your favorite business book that you have read?

Hot take. I am a huge reader. I read 52 books a year. I did last year, and it’s my goal for this year. I do not read that many business books. I have read business books really early on in our business. And then I love to read for pleasure, so I kind of like delicate and like podcasts are where I’m doing business.

I listen to a couple girly chat podcasts, but mostly I do business and then books. I read smutty books, smutty romance books. So that’s where it’s at. Cam help me out. Well this one is, I guess isn’t technically a business book, but I think one thing we found really valuable, we love to do personality tests.

Yes. And like really like hone in with our family and stuff too. Just fun. But like strengths finder, we had to do it in college. Have you heard of Strengths Finder?

It sounds familiar, but I don’t, I mean, is it like the Enneagram test?

It’s just a different personality test that I feel like isn’t as popular. But when we, the college, so Kim and I went to the University of Minnesota and incoming freshmen now have to do it. But explain a little bit of it. So basically what it does is you take this whole personality test and it gives you your top five strengths.

The whole test focus on what. Your strengths are what you’re good at. And supposedly, I can’t remember the stats. So there’s 32 total strengths. And supposedly if you took it a hundred times  you get a top five revealed, it would only ever reveal your top eight. So, you know, maybe it would switch it out.

And it would just have like two and then three others that are hidden. But, so you could take it over and over a hundred times and it would reveal your top eight. And it’s just promoting, capitalizing on your strengths and leaving everything else behind. And one fun thing is that it teaches you how to work with other people who have other certain strengths.

Like it knows my number one strength is competition, so is to you. Which sometimes hard, but also teach you then if you’re really good at competition, here’s how you work with someone who’s also competition or who is an achiever or who has woo. Like all these different things. So then, you know, like, okay, when we bring someone on to the.

We have them take this test so we know how could they operate with this. What makes, would they be a good fit for working on this or would they not? Should I be working on this more with this person or should cam be working on it more with this person? And maybe just like how to communicate with them better.

Definitely. It’s so powerful. Cam just briefly mentioned this, that we’ve been taking it with his family, taking different personality tests. Every holiday we take a new personality test when we get together and then we just sit and we analyze it, we go through results. It’s so fun and it’s been really powerful in our lives.

Like even thinking through things about, like, for example, camp’s, parents of. They don’t love to share a lot about themselves. So there’s a lot of things we’re learning for the first time when they’re reading these descriptions, they, that sounds a lot like me. Yes. Or like, wow, that makes a lot of sense in why they operate this way.

Could we support them in this way better because we’re not doing that right now. So, we love personality tests. Strengthsfinder comes with a book, and so there’s a strength finder book that you can learn a whole lot about it, which is just super fun, super engaging. Can that be our

So it still has a book tie in.

yes, yes. It’s a physical book you have to buy to get the code. Yes. To take the test.

So that’s the important thing to know. I just finished Atomic Habits and that was like, that is what has gotten me . Fired up about business books cuz I tried, I mean, I’ve done a couple, like, profit First was a great business book that I read. I loved it. I tried to read The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck and that like, it was hilarious.

But I, I learned through reading that I already don’t give a fuck. So I didn’t need to read it. And like, I mean, it was funny, but I only got maybe a corner of the way through it and I was like, eh, I can’t, so then I moved on to Atomic Habits and like that has, there was, there’s a couple that I read like building a Story brand and but Atomic Habits was definitely the one that I love the most. Tia,  do you actually read books or do you do the audio books?

So I’m an audiobook, girly. I never was until a couple of years ago. I love holding books. I just think that’s so fun. I love the smell. I love owning them. He used to be very stubborn about this. And I was really stubborn about it. And Cam is an audio, like fi I just loved a multitask. He loves, loves to multitask, and he listens to everything.

TV shows, books, everything. Like two times speed. A lot. One and a half for sure. Do not listen to that at one. And I was like, no, I, I I do not like it. And then I started listening to my books that I listen at one and a half lot and now I can grocery shop, I can drive while reading. And that’s allows me to get through so many more books, you know?

I was the same way. Like I loved all through high school, like the teacher would be teaching and I would be like at my desk, like reading my book behind the textbook because I couldn’t put my book down. But I mean, where I live now, everywhere that I go is at least a 30 minute drive.

And I was spending so much time in my car and I mean, podcasts are great to listen to, but I would get frustrated because I would wanna take notes. While I was driving, listening to a podcast, and I just couldn’t, like, I couldn’t, and I needed to be able to decompress and relax. So that’s when I started listening to books.

And I mean, sometimes some of the people that read my books are very slow. And so I’m listening to like 1.6 times. and it really, oh my gosh. And I like, I’ll slow it down to one every once in a while, like the regular speed and I’m. Like I am, my attention is gone within five words cuz it, they’re just so slow and I’m dying.

And it’s always funny when  I’m in the middle of listening to a book, get outta my car, get back in my car with somebody and my book picks up, I have to, especially with the money books, I have to like, I have to, case my husbands in the car.  Oh, there was one where like, it wasn’t, it sounded gross, but it wasn’t. I was like, it’s not that. but audio books, I don’t know if you, I know Audible is the big one that everybody uses, so I don’t know if you use this, but Libby, there’s, there are, yes. Okay, cool. Because, because I could not justify, like, I, I mean, I love supporting authors and I love buying books, and I, I listened to Atomic Habits and I loved it so much.

I bought it just so that I could see the visuals and still support the author. But I mean, ha having Audible and paying for a subscription or having to buy your books like that gets expensive. And I love that Libby and Hoopla let you still experience like borrowing a book from a library, but the audio version of it, and  I have to use both because hoopla is for my city.

But then Libby, my county does not use Libby, but my mom up in Virginia, her library card uses Libby. But their books are always like, I have so many books on my hold shelf that I’m just waiting in line for. So  I used my mom’s library card for Libby, and then I have my library card for Hoopla.

Yes. That’s smart. So did you know you can purchase library cards? What is it? O, like certain systems, like, so New York’s Brooklyn Library apparently is like one of the best in the world. And so you can like buy access to that, but also like peace of mind. The more you’re downloading books on Libby, you’re telling libraries what you like and library is going out and buying multiple copies.

So you’re still supporting those audio books? Because like technically they can’t just share one copy to everybody. They have to buy multiple copies to be shared for the demand.

And because they’re still like, you’re still supporting the author. So I love when I have a hold on my shelf and it’s like your library has acquired one additional audiobook since you put your hold on. And it’s great because like that reminded like the authors are still making money off of this and it gives you the thrill of having to wait your turn and like the whole

love waiting my turn. I love like, you know, I’ll have a, you can do tags for those that aren’t familiar with Libby. And so I’ll tag things like want to read and then I’ll go through my want to read list and they’ll be like, oh, three months out, oh, two months out. And I’ll like make sure that I have them spread out and then you can request them and then you wait for them.

And I just think it’s so exciting. Stinks when you’re wanting to read like sequels and stuff. And you’re like, oh, I just wanna read this next. But the rest of it, I think waiting in line and just like knowing what you’re doing of like, ah, I’m checking out a book is just freaking fun.

and the fact that it’s like it’s the library thing.

What did you say, Kim? Your good reads and your three, or your four and five Starbucks that you do. Oh, okay. So this might apply. So I was, you know, reading all of these audio books, but I still love books. I love  tangible books I Want Them. And I have in my office, I have these big blue built-ins that I wanted to fill with all my fun colored books.

I wanted to be able to read them for the future. I wanted to loan them to friends, and I wanted to, Kevin and I love hosting. We love having friends over and I wanted to be able to have friends over recommend a book and give it to them, to borrow. So what I did is I decided I wanted to buy similar to you with Atomic Habits, how you wanted to have the real audio.

I decided that I wanted the tangible books, and so I rate all my books in good reads, just so I know what I’m reading and if I’ve read it before, what I rated it, like all those things. And so at the end of the year, I took my four and five star books and I asked for them for. From my parents, from Cam’s parents, from some friends, my grandma.

And so everyone bought me my four and five star books. And so I got all these books and now I can have them in my shelves, I can loan them. We got like a little embossing stamp that says from the Library of the Goffs, which is our last name, Goff. And so then I can loan them out now and I can have those books and it’s literally so fun.

So those that are audiobook listeners that are still kind of partial to wanting to have tangible books, that was a way, I mean, not only to get my books that I loved, but also get them for presents for Christmas. So it worked out that. That’s so magical.

Would you rather DIY or outsource a task?

I think diy. I think so. Cam and I, I think one of our greatest strengths is that we have a lot of faith in ourselves of we can figure something out and it’s that curiosity. Cam loves to dig in and really figure things out. And we’ve even gone through some things in our business where we’ve outsourced it and not been cocky about it, but have been like, Ugh, I think we could have done this a lot better.

And in general, I think outsourcing is great. Out outsourcing is fantastic. There are very much other things in our life, in our business that we like. We should have been outsourcing this years ago, way sooner since we’ve been wasting our time and money. Definitely. But I think if we had to give a take for in general it would be di iy at Feels our first instinct. It’s our first, it’s our gut check.

It’s not a cocky thing at all. Like you, I feel like you can do things a lot better yourself, and it’s just the way to make sure that you are always gonna be happy.

Would you rather have a staycation or a vacation?

A vacation, cam and I love seeing new places. We love to travel, we love to experience new cultures, see things that we could not imagine in Minnesota we could not imagine in the us and we just love to see everything new.

What’s the next place that’s on your bucket list?

In a couple weeks we’re going to Portugal. We are super excited about it. It should be really fun. This is actually a big travel year for us this year. We’ll be some, like more local destination. Like we’ll be an Ohio speaking eye conference in California, but we’ll also be going to Spain and then we’ll probably be tacking on something else for personal travel around that trip.

But then probably next bucket list like that we do not have planned yet. What’s yours? Well, we’re kind of tentatively planning a Bali trip for the following multi spring week Bali, Thailand type trips. That’s high up there. Yes. Yes. That’s, I think that’s it.

What is your current TV show that you guys are watching?

Ooh. Ooh, two. Okay. We are currently watching Shrinking. It’s on Apple tv. It is Jason Siegel. He is a psychiatrist and he, it’s funny, it’s zingy, it’s topical, like there’s a lot of topical references but it’s also very heartwarming. You’ll maybe get a couple tears. Oh, definitely. Just here and there.

And it’s some good life lessons. And then on that we are huge Ted Lasso fans. Like you mentioned in the intro, Ted Lasso just came back for season three last week. So as listeners are listening to this, Ted Lasso is out on Apple TV two, like get Apple TV for those two shows. It’s so worth it.

Ted Lasso is a TV show you wanna. You go. Oh, it’s it’s just a soccer coach. If you haven’t heard about Ted Lasso yet, you need to watch it right now. It is a soccer coach. He was actually a football coach, like an American football coach in the us. He got brought over. Basically it Taka team. Tata to what?

Tatanka team. Taka team, yes. And it ends up being this entirely like every single episode, you will either ball, you will laugh out loud, you will get this amazing life lesson. It’s just like a story about heart and this wonderful man and so many interesting characters. You’ll love it.

Yay. I’ll have to check those out.

Have you not seen Ted Lasso?

No Apple TV is one of those networks that I always forget about. Like, I mean Hulu and Prime Video are like my top two. And then I’m Disney plus for Mandalorian, and then occasionally Netflix and Apple TV is like way down. I mean, like, I’m, I’m, I’m illustrating my Samsung TV bar with all the apps down at the bottom.

That’s what this is. Like Apple TV is all the way down at the far end, so I always forget about it. Bu, I will definitely, I mean, Ted Lasso was always like the top one to recommend, so I’ll have to add

great, it’s amazing. Related to Mandalorian, have you watched andor

I think we did finish it, yes. I’m big like Star Wars tha, I love all of those. So I will have, I’ll have to go see if we, I think we did like that Obie was the one that we did not, Obie went a little flat, but I think, and or we really did like, and they left it on a good hangar, didn’t they? I’m a big sci-fi star Trek Star Wars nerd.

Oh, okay. Well this was a great episode. Thank you guys so much for being on, and I can’t thank you enough for everything that you’ve offered between the Mastermind and our friendship and just everything. Business in general, like you guys are awesome and you’re such a good

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